Complete transcript of the Donald Trump-Joe Biden debate

This is the full transcript of the first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, moderated by Fox News' Chris Wallace.

CHRIS WALLACE: Good evening from the Health Education Campus at Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic. I'm Chris Wallace, of Fox News, and I welcome you to the first 2020 presidential debate between President Donald J. Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. This debate is sponsored by the Presidential Debate Commission. The commission designed the format, six approximately 15 minute sections with two minute responses from each candidate to the first question, followed by an open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns agreed to these rules. For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in each topic. I can assure you that none of the questions have been communicated to the Commission or to the two candidates.

This debate is conducted within the framework of health and safety protocols drawn up by the Cleveland Clinic, which acts as the health safety advisor to the Commission on all four debates. As a precautionary measure, both campaigns have agreed that candidates will not shake hands at the start of today's debate. The audience here in the hall promised to be silent. No cheers, boos or other interruptions so that we, and above all you, can concentrate on what the candidates have to say. No noise except now as we greet the Republican candidate, President Trump, and the Democratic candidate, Vice President Biden.

Joe Biden: How are you man?

DONALD TRUMP: How are you?

Joe Biden: I'm fine.

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, a lot of people have been waiting for this night, so let's get started. Our first subject is the Supreme Court. President Trump, you nominated Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg at court. You say the Constitution is clear about your and the Senate's obligation to consider a candidate for the Tribunal. Vice President Biden, you say this is an effort by the President and Republicans to get into what you call an abuse of power. My first question for both of you this evening: why are you right in the argument you are making and your opponent is wrong? And where would a Judge Barrett run the court? President Trump, in this first section you come first. Two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: Thank you, Chris. I will tell you very simply. We won the election. Elections have consequences. We have the Senate, we have the White House, and we have a phenomenal candidate who is respected by everyone. Top, top academic, good in every way. Good in every way. In fact, some of their biggest supporters are very liberal folks from Notre Dame and other places. I think it will be awesome. We have enough time. Even if we did it ourselves after the election. As you know, I have a lot of time after the election. So I think it will be excellent. She will be as good as anyone who has served in this square. We really feel that. We have a professor at Notre Dame who is highly regarded by everyone and says she is the greatest student he has ever had. He was a professor in a great school for a long time.

And we won the election and therefore we have the right to choose it, and very few people would knowingly say otherwise. By the way, the Democrats, they wouldn't even think about not doing it. The only difference is that they would try to make it faster. There was no way they would give it up. They had Merrick Garland but the problem is they didn't have a choice and that's why they were stopped. And probably the other way round too. Would definitely happen the other way around. So we won the election and we have the right to do so, Chris.

CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, thank you. The same question for you, Vice President Biden. You have two minutes.

JOE BIDEN: First of all, thank you very much for doing this and looking forward to it, Mr. President.

DONALD TRUMP: Thank you, Joe.

Donald Trump and Joe Biden clashed in Cleveland in the first presidential debate last night

JOE BIDEN: The American people have a right to have a say in who the Supreme Court candidate is, and that say comes when they vote for United States Senators and the President of the United States. You will not get this chance now because we are already in the middle of an election. The election has already started. Tens of thousands of people have already voted, so we should wait. We should wait and see what the outcome of this election is, because this is the only way for the American people to express their opinions by voting who to elect president and who to elect vice president.

The point here is that the president made it clear that he wants to get rid of the Affordable Care Act. He walked on it, he walked on it and he ruled on it. He's just before the Supreme Court trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act that keeps 20 million people from having health insurance when it goes to court. And justice, I'm not against justice, she seems like a very good person. But she wrote before going to the bank what her right is, that she thinks the affordable care law is not constitutional. The other thing that's on the court and what happens when it's knocked down? The rights of women are fundamentally changed. Once again, a woman could pay more money because she is already pregnant. You can charge women more for the same procedure a man receives.

And that ended when we actually passed the Affordable Care Act and there are a hundred million people who have pre-existing conditions and who are also being taken away. Insurance companies will love these pre-existing conditions. Therefore, it is simply not appropriate to do so before this election. If he wins the election and the Senate is Republican, he'll move on. If not, we should wait until February.

DONALD TRUMP: There aren't a hundred million people with pre-existing conditions. When it comes to having a say, the people have already had the floor. Okay, Justice Ginsburg said very forcefully, very strongly, sometime about 10 years ago, she said a president and the senate would be elected for a period of time, but a president would be elected for four years. We haven't been elected for three years. I haven't been elected for three years. So we have the Senate, we have a President.

Joe Biden: He's chosen for the next election.

DONALD TRUMP: During this time, during this time, we have an opening. I haven't been elected for three years. I've been elected for four years. Joe, the hundred million people are totally wrong. I don't know where you got this number from. The bigger problem you have is that you will wipe out 180 million people with their private health care that they are very happy with.

JOE BIDEN: That's just not true.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, you're going to be socialist for sure. You go into socialist medicine.

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, we are now in an open discussion.

Joe Biden: Open discussion.

CHRIS WALLACE: Open discussion, yes, I agree. Go ahead, Vice President.

Joe Biden: Number one, he knows what I suggested. What I suggested is that we expand and raise Obamacare. We don't wipe any. And one of the big debates we had with 23 of my co-workers trying to win the nomination that I won was that Biden wanted to allow people to still get private insurance. You can. Do it. You will be under my suggestion.

DONALD TRUMP: You didn't say that, and neither did your party.

Joe Biden: That's just a lie.

DONALD TRUMP: Your party doesn't say so. Your party wants to do socialist medicine and socialist health care.

Joe Biden: I am the party. Right now, I'm the Democratic Party.

DONALD TRUMP: And they will dominate you, Joe. You know that.

Joe Biden: I'm the Democratic Party right now.

DONALD TRUMP: Not after Harris.

JOE BIDEN: The Democratic Party's platform is what I actually approved of, what I approved of. Here is the deal. The deal is that it will wipe out pre-existing conditions. And by the way, the 200,000 people who died on his watch, how many of them survived? Well, there are seven million people who have contracted COVID. What does it mean to them if you reject the Affordable Care Act?

DONALD TRUMP: Joe, you let 308,000 military personnel die because you couldn't provide them with adequate health care in the military. So don't tell me about it.

Joe Biden: I'm excited to talk about it.

DONALD TRUMP: And if you were here it would not be 200 but two million people because you were very late for the draw. They didn't want me to ban China, which was heavily infected. They didn't want me to ban Europe.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, gentlemen, Mr. President.

DONALD TRUMP: You would have been much later, Joe, much later.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President.

DONALD TRUMP: We're talking about two million people.

Joe Biden: You won't be able to silence him.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, as a moderator, we will talk about COVID in the next section. But go ahead.

Joe Biden: Let me finish. The point is that the president is also against Roe V. Wade. That is also on the ballot and on the square, on the square, and that is also at stake now. And so the choice is everything-

DONALD TRUMP: You don't know what's on the ballot. Why is it on the ballot? Why is it on the ballot? It's not on the ballot.

JOE BIDEN: It's on the court ballot.

DONALD TRUMP: I don't think so.

Joe Biden: In court.

DONALD TRUMP: Nothing happens there.

JOE BIDEN: Donald, would you just be quiet for a minute?

DONALD TRUMP: You don't know your point of view on Roe V. Wade? You don't know any view here.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. Well. Let's talk. We have a lot to unpack here, gentlemen. We have a lot of time. Healthcare, and then we come back to Roe V. Wade.

Joe Biden: All right.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, a week after the election, the Supreme Court will hear a case involving the Trump administration, along with 18 attorneys general, trying to overthrow Obamacare and end Obamacare.


CHRIS WALLACE: You spent the last week.

DONALD TRUMP: Because they want to offer good health care.

CHRIS WALLACE: If I may ask my question, sir.

Joe Biden: Good health care.

CHRIS WALLACE: For the past four years you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare, but in those four years you have never developed a plan, a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare.

DONALD TRUMP: Yes, I have. Of course I have. The individual mandate.

CHRIS WALLACE: [crosstalk] When I'm done I'll give you an opportunity.

DONALD TRUMP: Sorry. I got rid of the individual mandate that was a big part of Obamacare.

CHRIS WALLACE: This is not a comprehensive place.

DONALD TRUMP: That's absolutely a big deal. That was the worst part of Obamacare.

CHRIS WALLACE: I didn't ask, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: Chris, that was the worst part of Obamacare.

CHRIS WALLACE: They're discussing him, not me. Let me ask my question.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, I'll ask Joe. The individual mandate was the least popular aspect of Obamacare.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President.

DONALD TRUMP: I got rid of it. And we will protect the people.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr President, I am moderating this debate and I want you to let me ask my question and then you can answer.


CHRIS WALLACE: You have never devised a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare in those four years, and it was only last Thursday, five days before this debate, that you signed a largely symbolic executive order protecting people with pre-existing conditions. So my question, sir, is what is the Trump Health Plan?

DONALD TRUMP: Well, first of all, I think I'm discussing you, not him, but that's okay. I am not suprised. Just let me tell you something. There is nothing symbolic. I am lowering drug prices. I'm going with Favored Nations, which no president has the courage to do because you're against big pharmaceutical companies. Drug prices will drop by 80 or 90%. You could have done it during your 47 year reign, but you didn't. Nobody did. So let's cut healthcare.

CHRIS WALLACE: What about existing conditions?

DONALD TRUMP: All the things that we've done.

JOE BIDEN: He didn't do any health care.

DONALD TRUMP: I'll give you an example. Insulin, it destroyed families, destroyed people, the expense. I get it so cheap it's like water, you want to know the truth. So cheap. Look at all of the drugs we do. Prescription drug prices are now going to allow our governors to go to other countries to buy drugs because once they've paid a tiny fraction of what we do.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay, like I said, this is an open discussion.

DONALD TRUMP: That's big stuff.

CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, you will be happy. I'm about to take one of your points and ask the Vice-President, that is, he indicates that you want to add a public option to Obamacare.

Joe Biden: Yeah.

CHRIS WALLACE: And the argument he and other Republicans are making is that this will end private insurance.

Joe Biden: It's not.

CHRIS WALLACE: When I start asking the question.

DONALD TRUMP: Your party doesn't say that, by the way.

CHRIS WALLACE: And it will end private insurance and create government coverage of health.

Joe Biden: It doesn't. Only those people who are so poor that they qualify for Medicaid can get it for free in most states, with the exception of governors who want to refuse people who are poor on Medicaid. Anyone who qualifies for Medicaid is automatically placed in the public option. The vast majority of Americans would still not be in that option. Number one. Number two.

DONALD TRUMP: Joe, you agreed to Bernie Sanders, who is on the far left of what we call the manifesto. And that gives you socialized medicine.

Joe Biden: Look, hey.

DONALD TRUMP: Are you saying that you disagreed?

Joe Biden: I won't listen to him. The fact is, I beat Bernie Sanders.

DONALD TRUMP: Not a lot.

JOE BIDEN: I hit him a hell of a lot.

DONALD TRUMP: Not a lot.

Joe Biden: I'm facing you here, old buddy.

DONALD TRUMP: If Pocahontas had left two days early, you would have lost every elementary school.

Joe Biden: Everything he knows how to do.

DONALD TRUMP: You were very lucky on Super Tuesday.

Joe Biden: Look, he's the deal. I was very lucky. I'll be very lucky tonight too.

DONALD TRUMP: With what?

Joe Biden: And tonight I'll see to it.

DONALD TRUMP: With what?

JOE BIDEN: Because here's the deal, here's the deal. The fact is that everything he has said so far is simply a lie. I'm not here to shout his lies. Everyone knows they are a liar.

DONALD TRUMP: But you agree. Joe, you are the liar. You got the last degree in your class, not the first in your class.

Joe Biden: God, I want to make sure …

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir?

Joe Biden: No, he doesn't know how to do it.

DONALD TRUMP: You would be surprised. You would be surprised. Go on, Joe.

Joe Biden: The wrong one, the wrong night, the wrong time.

DONALD TRUMP: Look, you agreed to Bernie Sanders and the manifesto.

JOE BIDEN: There is no manifesto, number one.

CHRIS WALLACE: Please let him speak, Mr. President.

Joe Biden: Number two.

DONALD TRUMP: He just lost his left.

Joe Biden: Number two.

DONALD TRUMP: You just lost your left. You have set up a plan with Bernie Sanders that you absolutely agreed to, and under that plan [crosstalk] they call it socialized medicine.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President.

JOE BIDEN: I'll tell you what, he's not helping people who need medical care.

DONALD TRUMP: Who is Bernie?

JOE BIDEN: Because it has actually already cost 10 million people the health care they received from their employers due to its recession. Number one. Number two, there are 20 million people receiving medical care through Obamacare now that he wants to take it away. He will never look you in the eye and say that is what he wants to do. Take it away

DONALD TRUMP: No, I want to give you better health care at a much cheaper price because Obamacare is not good.

Joe Biden: He doesn't know how. He doesn't know how to do it.

DONALD TRUMP: I've already fixed it.

Joe Biden: He never offered a plan.

DONALD TRUMP: We've already fixed it to some extent. Obamacare, as you may know, but probably not, Obamacare is no good.

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, you can tell when the two of you are speaking at the same time. Let the president. Go ahead, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: Obamacare is not good. We did better and I had the choice to score very early. We took away the individual mandate. We guaranteed existing conditions, but took away the individual mandate. Look, that's it. And that destroys … you shouldn't even call it Obamacare then I had a decision to make, do I let my people do it really well or badly? If I let it go bad, they'll probably blame him, but they'll blame me. But more importantly, I want to help people. OK. I said, "You have to make it go so well." And I just had a meeting with them. You said the problem is no matter how well you do Obamacare, it is a disaster. It is too expensive. The premiums are too high for it to not work. So let's get rid of it. Chris, we want to get rid of this and give something that is cheaper and better.

CHRIS WALLACE: I understand, sir. But I gotta give you roughly the same time


CHRIS WALLACE: Please let the Vice President speak, sir.


JOE BIDEN: He doesn't have a health care plan.

DONALD TRUMP: Of course we do.


JOE BIDEN: He sends out wishful thinking. He has executive orders that have no power. He didn't cut drug costs for anyone. Since his election, he has been promising a health plan. He has none, like almost everything he talks about. He has no plan. He has no plan. And the fact is, this man doesn't know what he's talking about. [Crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, I have one last question for you.

Joe Biden: Sure.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, when it comes to Senate Republicans, we were originally talking about the Supreme Court here. If the Senate Republicans uphold Justice Barrett, there would be talk of ending the filibuster or even grabbing the court and adding the nine judges there. They call this a president distraction. In fact, it was not brought up by the President. It was raised by some of your Democratic colleagues in Congress. So my question to you is this: you have refused to talk about it in the past. Are you ready to tell the American tonight whether or not you support ending the filibuster or packing the court?

JOE BIDEN: Whatever position I take, that becomes a problem. The problem is that the American people should speak. You should go out there and vote. You are voting now. Vote and let your senators know exactly how you are feeling.

DONALD TRUMP: Are you going to pack the dish?

JOE BIDEN: Vote now.

DONALD TRUMP: Are you going to pack the dish?

JOE BIDEN: Make sure you let people know, your senators.

DONALD TRUMP: He doesn't want to answer the question.

Joe Biden: I won't answer the question.

DONALD TRUMP: Why wouldn't you answer that question? You want to appoint many new Supreme Court justices. Radically left.

Joe Biden: Are you going to shut up man?

DONALD TRUMP: Look who's on your list, Joe? Who is on your list

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, I think we finished this.

JOE BIDEN: It's so unpresidential.

DONALD TRUMP: He'll grab the dish. He won't give a list.

CHRIS WALLACE: We ended the segment. We'll move on to the second segment.

JOE BIDEN: That was really a productive segment, wasn't it? Keep yapping, man.

DONALD TRUMP: People understand, Joe.

Joe Biden: They sure do.

DONALD TRUMP: You haven't done anything for 47 years. You understand.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, the second issue is COVID-19, which is an awfully serious issue. So let's try to take it seriously. We have had more than seven million cases of coronavirus in the US and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we create a vaccine, experts say it can take months or even years before we get back to something that is nearing normal. My question for both of you is, based on what you've said and done so far, and what you've done from 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your adversary to deal with this public health crisis forward ? In that case, the question goes to you first, sir. Two minutes without a break.

Joe Biden: Good luck. 200,000 dead. As you said, over seven million people are infected in the United States. We actually have 4% of the world's population, 20% of the deaths. 40,000 people develop COVID every day. In addition, between 750 and 1000 people die every day. When presented with this number, he said, "It is what it is." Well it is what it is because you are who you are. That's why it is so. The president has no plan. He didn't lay out anything. As early as February he knew how serious this crisis was. He knew it was a fatal disease. What has he done? He's on tape and admits he knew. He said he didn't tell us or warn people about it because he didn't want to panic the American people. You don't panic. He panicked. What else did he do?

JOE BIDEN: He went in and we insisted that the people we had in China go to Wuhan and determine for themselves how dangerous that is. He didn't even ask Xi to do it.


JOE BIDEN: He told us what a great job Xi did. He said we owe him gratitude for being so transparent with us. And what did he do then? Then he did nothing. He waited and waited and waited. He still has no plan.


CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, it's his two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: It's so wrong.

JOE BIDEN: In March I decided exactly what we should do. And in July I set out again what we should do. We should provide all possible protective equipment. We should put the money the House spent to give people the help they need to keep their businesses open. Open schools cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and out of the sand trap of your golf course and go into the Oval Office and get the Democrats and Republicans together and fund what needs to be done now to save lives.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, if we'd listened to you.

CHRIS WALLACE: Wait, wait. You have two minutes, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: If we had listened to you, the country would have been left wide open, millions of people would have died, not 200,000. And one person is too much. It's China's fault. It should never have happened. They prevented it from going in, but it was China's fault. By the way, when you talk about numbers, you don't know how many people died in China. You don't know how many people died in Russia. You don't know how many people died in India. They don't give you an exact count just for you to understand. But if you look at what we did, I closed it and you said, “He's xenophobic. He's a racist and xenophobic because you didn't think I should have closed our country. Wait a minute.

CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, it's his two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: You didn't think we should have closed our country because you thought it was terrible. They wouldn't have closed it in two months. In fact, Dr. Fauci, by doing it early on, "President Trump has saved thousands of lives." Many of your Democratic governors have said, "President Trump has done a phenomenal job." We worked with the governor. Oh really, look. The governors said I did a phenomenal job. Most of them said that. In fact, people who weren't necessarily on my side said, "President Trump did a phenomenal job." We made. We have the clothes. We have the masks. We made the fans. They wouldn't have made fans. And now we are weeks away from a vaccine. We already make therapeutics. Fewer people die when they get sick. Far fewer people die. We did a great job.

DONALD TRUMP: The only thing I didn't do well and that's because of the wrong news, no matter what you tell them, they give you bad press about it. It's just fake news. They give you good press, they give me bad press, because unfortunately it is. But let me just say something. I do not care. I got used to it. But I'm telling you, Joe, you could never have done the job we did. You don't have it in your blood. You never could have done that, Joe.

Joe Biden: I know how to do the job. I know how to do the job.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, you didn't do very well on swine flu. H1-N1, you were a disaster. Your own chief of staff said you were a disaster.

JOE BIDEN: 14,000 people died, not 200,000.

DONALD TRUMP: By the way, a far less fatal disease.

CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, you made a point. Let him answer.

Joe Biden: And there wasn't anyone … We didn't close the economy. This is his economy that he closed. The reason it shut down is because you are folks at home. How many of you got up this morning with an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID? How many of you find yourself in a situation where you lost your mother or father and couldn't even speak to them. You had a nurse holding up a phone so you could actually say goodbye?

DONALD TRUMP: We would have lost a lot more people, a lot more people. You would have been months late. You're months behind me, Joe.

JOE BIDEN: His own CDC director says we could lose another 200,000 people by the end of the year. And he said if we just wear one mask we can save half of those numbers. Just a mask. By the way, for the whole idea of ​​a vaccine, we're in favor of a vaccine, but I don't trust it at all. You neither. I know you don't. What we trust is a scientist.

DONALD TRUMP: You don't trust Johnson & Johnson Pfizer?

Part 2

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay, gentlemen, gentlemen. Let me move on to questions about the future, as you both raised two of the questions that I am going to ask. If you focus on the future first, President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or contradicted some of the top scientists in your administration. The week before last, the head of the Centers for Disease Control Dr. Redfield, it would be summer before the vaccine was made widely available to the public. They said he was confused and wrong. Those were your two words. But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your Operation Warp Speed, said exactly the same thing. Are they both wrong?

DONALD TRUMP: Nun, ich habe mit den Unternehmen gesprochen und wir können es viel früher haben. Es ist eine sehr politische Sache, weil solche Leute es lieber politisch machen würden, als Leben zu retten.

Joe Biden: Gott.

DONALD TRUMP: Es ist eine sehr politische Sache. Ich habe mit Pfizer gesprochen, ich habe mit allen Leuten gesprochen, mit denen Sie sprechen müssen, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson und anderen. Sie können viel schneller gehen. Es ist sehr politisch geworden, weil die Linke … Oder ich weiß nicht, ob ich sie links nenne, ich weiß nicht, wie ich sie nenne.

CHRIS WALLACE: Sie schlagen also vor, dass der Leiter Ihrer Operation Warp Speed, Dr. Slaoui-

DONALD TRUMP: Ich bin nicht einverstanden mit ihm. Nein, ich bin mit beiden nicht einverstanden. Und das hat er nicht gesagt. Er sagte, es könnte dort sein, aber es könnte auch viel früher sein. Ich hatte ihn vor zwei Tagen in meinem Büro.

CHRIS WALLACE: Er hat über den Sommer gesprochen, Sir, bevor er allgemein verfügbar ist, genau wie Dr. Redfield.

DONALD TRUMP: Weil er sagte, es ist möglich, dass wir die Antwort vor dem 1. November haben. Es könnte auch danach sein.

CHRIS WALLACE: Ich spreche davon, wann es allgemein verfügbar ist, nicht-

DONALD TRUMP: Nun, wir werden es sofort liefern. Wir haben das Militär eingerichtet. Logistisch gesehen sind sie alle eingerichtet. Wir haben unser Militär, das Soldaten liefert und sie können 200.000 pro Tag erledigen. Sie werden liefern-

JOE BIDEN: Dies ist derselbe Mann, der dir gesagt hat-

DONALD TRUMP: Es ist alles eingerichtet.

JOE BIDEN:… bis Ostern würde das weg sein. Bei dem warmen Wetter wäre es weg. Wunderbar wie ein Wunder. Übrigens, vielleicht könnten Sie etwas Bleichmittel in Ihren Arm spritzen, und das würde sich darum kümmern. Das ist der gleiche Mann.

DONALD TRUMP: Das wurde sarkastisch gesagt, und das wissen Sie. Das wurde sarkastisch gesagt.

Joe Biden: Also hier ist der Deal. Dieser Mann spricht von einem Impfstoff. Jedes seriöse Unternehmen spricht davon, dass möglicherweise bis Ende des Jahres ein Impfstoff verabreicht wird, aber die Verteilung dieses Impfstoffs erfolgt erst Anfang Mitte nächsten Jahres, um ihn herauszubekommen, wenn wir den Impfstoff erhalten. Und bete, Gott, wir werden es tun. Bete, Gott, wir werden es tun.

CHRIS WALLACE: Herr Vizepräsident, ich möchte abholen.

DONALD TRUMP: Sie werden den Impfstoff früher bekommen.

CHRIS WALLACE: Ich möchte diese Frage jedoch aufgreifen. Sie sagen, die Öffentlichkeit kann den Wissenschaftlern vertrauen, aber sie können Präsident Trump nicht vertrauen. Tatsächlich haben Sie das heute Abend noch einmal gesagt. Ihr Laufkamerad, Senator Harris, geht noch weiter und sagt, dass Experten des öffentlichen Gesundheitswesens zitieren: "Wird mundtot gemacht, wird unterdrückt." Tragen Sie und Ihr Mitstreiter, Senator Harris, angesichts der Tatsache, dass Umfragen bereits zeigen, dass die Menschen über den Impfstoff besorgt sind und ihn nur ungern einnehmen, zu dieser Angst bei?

JOE BIDEN: Nicht mehr als die Frage, die Sie ihm gerade gestellt haben. Sie haben darauf hingewiesen, dass er Druck ausübt und mit seinen eigenen Wissenschaftlern nicht einverstanden ist.

CHRIS WALLACE: Aber du sagst, du kannst nicht-

Joe Biden: Jeder weiß …

CHRIS WALLACE: Oder Senator Harris sagt, Sie können dem Wissenschaftler nicht vertrauen.

Joe Biden: Nun, nein, nein. Sie können dem Wissenschaftler vertrauen. Das hat sie nicht gesagt. Sie können dem vertrauen

CHRIS WALLACE: Sie sagte, dass Experten des öffentlichen Gesundheitswesens zitieren: "Wird mundtot gemacht, wird unterdrückt."

Joe Biden: Ja. Nun, das wird er versuchen, aber es gibt Tausende von Wissenschaftlern da draußen, wie hier in diesem großartigen Krankenhaus, die nicht für ihn arbeiten. Ihr Job hängt nicht von ihm ab. Sie sind die Leute … und übrigens …

DONALD TRUMP: Wir haben mit den verantwortlichen Wissenschaftlern gesprochen.

Joe Biden: Übrigens …

DONALD TRUMP:… sie werden den Impfstoff sehr bald haben.

CHRIS WALLACE: Lass ihn fertig werden.

JOE BIDEN: Glauben Sie für einen Moment, was er Ihnen angesichts all der Lügen erzählt, die er Ihnen über das ganze Problem im Zusammenhang mit COVID erzählt hat? Er hat immer noch nicht einmal anerkannt, dass er wusste, dass dies geschah, wusste, wie gefährlich es im Februar sein würde, und er hat es Ihnen nicht einmal gesagt. Es ist bekannt, dass er es sagt. Er geriet in Panik oder schaute nur auf die Börse. Einer der Beiden. Weil weißt du was? A lot of people died and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, a lot quicker-

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President?

DONALD TRUMP: Did you use the word smart? So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State. You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me. Don't ever use that word.

JOE BIDEN: Oh, give me a break.

DONALD TRUMP: Because you know what? There's nothing smart about you, Joe. 47 years you've done nothing.

JOE BIDEN: Well, let's have this debate-

DONALD TRUMP: Let me just tell you something, Joe. If you would have had the charge of what I was put through, I had to close the greatest economy of the history of our country. And by the way, now it's being built again and it's going up fast.

CHRIS WALLACE: We'll get to the economy in the next segment, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: Okay. It's going up fast. I look forward to talking about it.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. When it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. I want to quickly go through several of those. Reopenings. Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump about reopening the economy and schools. Why, sir?

JOE BIDEN: Because he doesn't have a plan. If I were running it, I'd know what the plan is. You've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen with the PPE, as well as with the sanitation they need. You have to provide them classic-

DONALD TRUMP: Tell that to Nancy Pelosi.

JOE BIDEN: Will he just shush for a minute?

DONALD TRUMP: Tell that to Nancy Pelosi, and Schumer [crosstalk] Chuck.

JOE BIDEN: Nancy Pelosi and Schumer, they have a plan. He won't even meet with them. The Republicans won't meet in the Senate. He sits in his golf course. Well, I mean, literally, think about it. Think about it.

DONALD TRUMP: You probably play more than I do, Joe.

CHRIS WALLACE: What about this question of reopenings and the fact-

DONALD TRUMP: Well, he wants to shut down this country and I want to keep it open, and we did a great thing by shutting it down-

JOE BIDEN: You just admitted you'd shut it down.

DONALD TRUMP: Wait a minute, Joe. Let me shut you down for a second, Joe, just for one second. He wants to shut down the country. We just went through it. We had to, because we didn't know anything about the disease. Now we've found that elderly people with heart problems and diabetes and different problems are very, very vulnerable. We learned a lot. Young children aren't, even younger people aren't. We've learned a lot, but he wants to shut it down. More people will be hurt by continuing. If you look at Pennsylvania, if you look at certain states that have been shut down, they have Democrat governors, all, one of the reasons they shut down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election on November 3rd.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. I want to move onto another-

DONALD TRUMP: Because it's a political thing.

CHRIS WALLACE: I want to move onto another subject.

JOE BIDEN: I got to respond to that.

CHRIS WALLACE: I want to move-

DONALD TRUMP: But those states-

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, I want to move onto another subject.

DONALD TRUMP: Those states are not doing well that are shut down right now.

JOE BIDEN: I got to respond to that.

DONALD TRUMP: He wants to shut down the whole country.

CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?

DONALD TRUMP: No, I think masks are okay. You have to understand, if you look… I mean, I have a mask right here. I put a mask on when I think I need it. Tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to, but I wear masks-

JOE BIDEN: Just like your rally.

DONALD TRUMP: … when needed. When needed, I wear masks.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. Let me ask-

DONALD TRUMP: I don't wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen. I will say this-

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.

JOE BIDEN: Look, the way to open businesses is give them the wherewithal to be able open. We provided money, the-

CHRIS WALLACE: But I was asking you, sir, about masks.

JOE BIDEN: Well, masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now, if everybody wore a mask and social distanced between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.

DONALD TRUMP: And they've also said the opposite. They've also said-

JOE BIDEN: No serious person has said the opposite. No serious person.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. I want to ask you-

DONALD TRUMP: Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci said the opposite.

JOE BIDEN: He did not say the opposite.

CHRIS WALLACE: I want to ask you, we've got a little than a minute left in this segment.

DONALD TRUMP: He said very strongly, 'Masks are not good.' Then he changed his mind. He said, 'Masks are good.'

CHRIS WALLACE: I want to ask-

DONALD TRUMP: I'm okay with masks. I'm not fighting masks.

CHRIS WALLACE: I want to ask you both about one last subject because your different approaches has even affected the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you're holding large rallies with crowds packed together, thousands of people.


CHRIS WALLACE: Outside. Yes, sir. Agreed. Vice President Biden, you are holding much smaller events with-

DONALD TRUMP: Because nobody will show up.

CHRIS WALLACE: … people with masks.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, it's true. Nobody shows up to his rallies.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. In any case, why you holding the big rallies? Why you not? You go first, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: Because people want to hear what I have to say. I mean-

CHRIS WALLACE: But are not worried about us spreading disease?

DONALD TRUMP: … I'm doing my job as a president, and I'll have 25, 35,000 people show up at airports. We use airports and hangers and we have a lot of people-

CHRIS WALLACE: Are you not worried about the disease issues, sir?

DONALD TRUMP: Well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. It's outside. That's a big difference according to the experts. We do them outside, we have tremendous crowds, as you see, and literally on 24 hours notice. And Joe does the circles and has three people someplace.

JOE BIDEN: By the way, did you see one of the last big rallies he had? A reporter came up to him to ask him a question, he said, 'No, no, no. Stand back, put on your mask, put on a mask. Have you been tested? I'm way far away from those other people.' That's what he said, 'I'm going to be okay.' He's not worried about you. He's not worried about the people out there [crosstalk].

DONALD TRUMP: We've had no negative effect.

JOE BIDEN: No negative effect. Come on.

DONALD TRUMP: We've had no negative effect, and we've had 35, 40,000 people at these rallies.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. Do you want to just quickly finish up? Because I want to move on to our next-

JOE BIDEN: Yes, I would. He's been totally irresponsible the way in which he has handled the social distancing and people wearing masks, basically encouraged them not to. He's a fool on this.

DONALD TRUMP: If you could get the crowds, you would have done the same thing. But you can't. Nobody cares.

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, can we move on to the-


CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, can we move on to the economy?


CHRIS WALLACE: The economy is, I think it's fair to say, recovering faster than expected from the shutdown-

DONALD TRUMP: Much faster.

CHRIS WALLACE: … in the second quarter. The unemployment rate fell to 8.4% last month. The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. President Trump, you say we are in a V-shaped recovery. Vice President Biden, you say it's more of a K-shape. What difference does that mean to the American people in terms of the economy? President Trump, in this segment you go first.

DONALD TRUMP: So we built the greatest economy in history. We closed it down because of the China plague. When the plague came in, we closed it down, which was very hard psychologically to do. He didn't think we should close it down and he was wrong. Again, two million people would be dead now instead of… Still, 204,000 people is too much. One person is too much. Should have never happened from China. But what happened is we closed it down and now we're reopening and we're doing record business. We had 10.4 million people in a four month period that we've put back into the workforce. That's a record the likes of which nobody's ever seen before. And he wants to close down the… He will shut it down again. He will destroy this country.

DONALD TRUMP: A lot of people, between drugs and alcohol and depression, when you start shutting it down, you take a look at what's happening at some of your Democrat-run states where they have these tough shutdowns. And I'm telling you it's because they don't want to open it. One of them came out last week, you saw that, 'Oh, we're going to open up on November 9th.' Why November 9th? Because it's after the election. They think they're hurting us by keeping them closed. They're hurting people. People know what to do. They can social distance. They can wash their hands, they can wear masks. They can do whatever they want, but they got to open these states up.

DONALD TRUMP: When you look at North Carolina, when you look, and these governors are under siege, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and a couple of others, you got to open these states up. It's not fair. You're talking about almost it's like being in prison. And you look at what's going on with divorce, look at what's going on with alcoholism and drugs. It's a very, very sad thing. And he'll close down the whole country. This guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. Our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. We don't need somebody to come in and say, 'Let's shut it down.'

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. Your two minutes, sir. We're now moved to you. As I said, posing the question, the president says it's a V-shape recovery, you say it's a K-shaped recovery. What's the difference?

JOE BIDEN: The difference is millionaires and billionaires like him in the middle of the COVID crisis have done very well. Billionaires have made another $300 billion because of his profligate tax proposal, and he only focused on the market. But you folks at home, you folks living in Scranton and Claymont and all the small towns and working class towns in America, how well are you doing? This guy paid a total of $750 in taxes.

DONALD TRUMP: That's wrong.

CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, wait. No. Sir-

DONALD TRUMP: [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: Yeah, I understand. You've agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have it.

JOE BIDEN: Do I get my time back? The fact is that he has in fact, worked on this in a way that he's going to be the first president of the United States to leave office, having fewer jobs in his administration than when he became president. Fewer jobs than when he became president. First one in American history.

JOE BIDEN: Secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines. Those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have been out there dying. People who've been putting themselves in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. And the idea that he is insisting that we go forward and open when you have almost half the states in America with a significant increase in COVID deaths and COVID cases in the United States of America, and he wants to open it up more. Why is he want to open it up? Why does he take care of the… You can't fix the economy until you fix the COVID crisis. And he has no intention of doing anything about making it better for you all at home in terms of your health and your safety.

JOE BIDEN: Schools. Why aren't schools open? Because it costs a lot of money to open them safely. They were going to give, his administration going to give the teachers and school students masks, and then they decided no, couldn't do that because it's not a national emergency. Not a national emergency. They've done nothing to help small businesses. Nichts. They're closing. One in six is now gone. He ought to get on the job and take care of the needs of the American people so we can open safely.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. Your time is up, sir. We are going to get to-

DONALD TRUMP: I have to respond to that.

CHRIS WALLACE: Well, you both had two minutes, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me, he made a statement.

CHRIS WALLACE: And so did you.

DONALD TRUMP: No, people want their schools open. They don't want to be shut down. They don't want their state shut down. They want their restaurants. I look at New York. It's so sad what's happening in New York. It's almost like a ghost town, and I'm not sure it can ever recover what they've done to New York. People want their places open. They want to get back to their lives.

JOE BIDEN: People want to be safe.

DONALD TRUMP: They'll be careful, but they want their schools open.

JOE BIDEN: People want to be safe.

DONALD TRUMP: I'm the one that brought back football. By the way, I brought back Big Ten football. It was me and I'm very happy to do it-

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. Let's-

DONALD TRUMP: … and people of Ohio are very proud of me. And you know how I found out? When [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, we're going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment, but first, Mr. President, as you well know, there's a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president, and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I'm asking you this specific question. Is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years?

DONALD TRUMP: I paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax. And let me just tell you, there was a story in one of the papers that paid-

JOE BIDEN: Show us your tax returns.

DONALD TRUMP: I paid $38 million one year, I paid $27 million one year.

JOE BIDEN: Show us your tax returns.

DONALD TRUMP: You'll see it as soon as it's finished, you'll see it. You know, if you wanted to, go to the Board of Elections. There's 118 page or so report that says everything I have, every bank I have, I'm totally under leveraged because the assets are extremely good, and I built a great company.

CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, I'm asking you a specific question, which is-

DONALD TRUMP: But let me tell you-

CHRIS WALLACE: I understand all of that.

JOE BIDEN: Release your tax return.

CHRIS WALLACE: I understand all of that-


CHRIS WALLACE: No, Mr. President, I'm asking you a question. Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017?

DONALD TRUMP: Millions of dollars.

CHRIS WALLACE: You paid millions of dollars in-

DONALD TRUMP: Millions of dollars, yes.

CHRIS WALLACE: So not 750?

DONALD TRUMP: Millions of dollars. And you'll get to see it. And you'll get to see it.


DONALD TRUMP: But let me just tell you-

JOE BIDEN: In [crosstalk]?

DONALD TRUMP: Chris, let me just say something, that it was the tax laws. I don't want to pay tax. Before I came here, I was a private developer, I was a private business people. Like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go through the laws, and that's what it is. He passed a tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation and for tax credits. We build the building and we get tax credits, like the hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. Which by the way, was given to me by the Obama administration, if you can believe that. Now the man got fired right after that happened, but that's-

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden, you want to respond?

JOE BIDEN: Yeah, I do want to respond. Look, the tax code that put him in a position that he pays less tax than on the money a school teacher makes is because of him… He says he's smart because he can take advantage of the tax code. And he does take advantage of the tax code. That's why I'm going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts. And I'm going to eliminate those tax cuts.

DONALD TRUMP: That's okay.

JOE BIDEN: And make sure that we invest in the people who in fact need the help. People out there need help.

DONALD TRUMP: But why didn't you do it over the last 25 years?

JOE BIDEN: Because you weren't president-

DONALD TRUMP: Why didn't you do it over the last 25 years?

JOE BIDEN: Because you weren't president and screwing things up.

DONALD TRUMP: You were a Senator and [crosstalk]-

JOE BIDEN: You're the worst president America has ever had. Come on.

DONALD TRUMP: Hey, Joe, let me just tell you, Joe. In 47 months, I've done more than you've done in 47 years, Joe. We've done things that you never even thought of doing.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. Gentlemen?

DONALD TRUMP: Including fixing the broken military that you gave me, including taking care of your debts.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, we're talking about the economy. I'd like to ask you about your plans going forward because Mr. Vice President, your economic plan-

DONALD TRUMP: He has none.

CHRIS WALLACE: … if you were to be elected president focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. I want to focus first on the taxes. You propose more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year.

CHRIS WALLACE: … on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it's just coming out of a recession.

JOE BIDEN: Well, just take a look at what is the analysis done by Wall Street firms, points out that my economic plan would create 7 million more jobs than his in four years, number one. And number two, it would create an additional $1 trillion in economic growth, because it would be about buying American. The federal government spends $600 billion a year on everything from ships, to steel, to buildings and the like. And under my proposal, we're going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made by a company-

CHRIS WALLACE: But respectfully, sir, I'm talking about taxes, not spending.

JOE BIDEN: By the way, I'm going to eliminate a significant number of the taxes. I'm going to make the corporate tax 28%. It shouldn't be 21%. You have 91 companies federal, I mean, the fortune 500, who don't pay a single penny in tax making billions of dollars.

DONALD TRUMP: Why didn't you do it before, when you were vice president with Obama?

JOE BIDEN: Because you in fact passed that, that was your tax proposal.

DONALD TRUMP: I got it done. And you know what happened?

JOE BIDEN: Yeah, you got it done-

DONALD TRUMP: Our economy boomed like it's never boomed before.

JOE BIDEN: The economy-

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President-

JOE BIDEN: Let me finish.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct?

JOE BIDEN: Not lower tax for the American people.

CHRIS WALLACE: But let me-

DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me.

CHRIS WALLACE: You talk about the economy booming. It turns out that in Obama's final three years as president more jobs were created, a million and a half more jobs, than in the first three years of your presidency.

DONALD TRUMP: They had the slowest economic recovery since 1929. It was the slowest recovery. Also, they took over something that was down here. All you had to do is turn on the lights and you pick up a lot. But they had the slowest economic recovery since 1929, and let me tell you about the stock market. When the stock market goes up, that means jobs. It also means 401ks. If you got in, if you ever became president with your ideas, you want to terminate my taxes. I'll tell you what, you'll lose. Half of the companies that have poured in here will leave. And plenty of companies that are already here, they'll leave for other places. [crosstalk] They will leave and you will have a depression, the likes of which you've never seen.


CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. Vice President.

JOE BIDEN: … we inherited the worst recession, short of a depression in American history. I was asked to bring it back. We were able to have an economic recovery that created the jobs you're talking about. We handed him a booming economy, he blew it.

DONALD TRUMP: It wasn't blooming.

JOE BIDEN: He blew it.

DONALD TRUMP: He was in booming. It was the weakest recovery since 1929.

CHRIS WALLACE: Wait, wait, is it fair to say he blew it when, in fact-

DONALD TRUMP: When COVID came along.

CHRIS WALLACE: … when there was record low unemployment before COVID.

JOE BIDEN: Yeah, because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole. Manufacturing went in a hole-

DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me, Chris, wait.

JOE BIDEN: … number one. Number two-


JOE BIDEN: Number three.

DONALD TRUMP: They said it would take… No, you're on number two.


DONALD TRUMP: Chris, Chris. They said it would take-

JOE BIDEN: This guy-

DONALD TRUMP: … a miracle to bring back manufacturing. I brought back 700,000 jobs. They brought back nothing. They gave up on manufacturing.

JOE BIDEN: We did not. [crosstalk]

DONALD TRUMP: … standard fare.

JOE BIDEN: I'm the guy that brought back the automobile industry.

DONALD TRUMP: He totally gave up on manufacturing.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, let him-

JOE BIDEN: I was asked to bring back Chrysler and General Motors. He brought them back right here in the state of Ohio and Michigan. He blew it. They're gone. He blew it. And in fact, they're gone-

DONALD TRUMP: Ohio had the best year it's ever had last year. Michigan had the best year they've ever had.

JOE BIDEN: That is not true.

DONALD TRUMP: Many car companies came in from Germany, from Japan, went to Michigan, went to Ohio and they didn't come in with you. [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, go ahead.

JOE BIDEN: And so you take a look at what he's actually done. He's done very little. His trade deals are the same way. He talks about these great trade deals. He talks about the art of the deal. China's perfected the art of the steel. We have a higher deficit with China now than we did before. We have the highest trade deficit-

DONALD TRUMP: China ate your lunch- [crosstalk].

JOE BIDEN: … with Mexico.

DONALD TRUMP: China ate your lunch, Joe. And no wonder your son goes in and he takes out billions of dollars. He takes out billions of dollars to manage. He makes millions of dollars. And also, while we're at it, why is it just out of curiosity, the mayor of Moscow's wife gave you a son three and a half million dollars?

JOE BIDEN: That is not true.

DONALD TRUMP: What did he do to deserve it? What did he do with-

JOE BIDEN: None of that is true.

DONALD TRUMP: … to deserve $183,000?

CHRIS WALLACE: Sir, you've asked him a question, let him answer it.

JOE BIDEN: None of that is true.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh really, he didn't get three and a half million?

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President-

JOE BIDEN: Is totally-

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, please. You've asked a question- [crosstalk]

JOE BIDEN: Totally discredited. Totally discredited. And by the way-

DONALD TRUMP: Well wait, he didn't get three and a half million dollars, Joe?

JOE BIDEN: Mr. Vice-

DONALD TRUMP: He got three and a half million-

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President.

DONALD TRUMP: … dollars.

JOE BIDEN: That is not true.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh, really?

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, it's an open discussion. Please- [crosstalk]

DONALD TRUMP: It's a fact.

JOE BIDEN: It is not a fact.

CHRIS WALLACE: Well, you have raised an issue, let the Vice President answer.

JOE BIDEN: It's been totally discredited.

DONALD TRUMP: Did Burisma pay him 183,000 a month, with no experience in energy?

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President-

JOE BIDEN: My son did nothing wrong at Barisma-

DONALD TRUMP: I think he did.

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, let him answer. [crosstalk].

JOE BIDEN: He doesn't want to let me answer, because he knows I have the truth. His position has been totally thoroughly discredited-


JOE BIDEN: And you can-

DONALD TRUMP: The media.

JOE BIDEN: by everybody. Well, by the media, by our allies.

DONALD TRUMP: By the media, because they refuse to talk about it-

JOE BIDEN: By the World Bank-

DONALD TRUMP: … because they're embarrassed.

JOE BIDEN: By everyone, has discredited. And matter of fact [crosstalk] Matter of fact-

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, please stop.

JOE BIDEN: Even the people who testified under oath-

DONALD TRUMP: So let me ask you this, Joe- [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: Go ahead, I'm listening to you.

JOE BIDEN: Even the people under-

DONALD TRUMP: He got three and a half million dollars from Moscow.

JOE BIDEN: … testified under oath in his administration said I did my job and I did it very well.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh, really?

JOE BIDEN: I did it honorably.

DONALD TRUMP: I'd like to know who they are.

JOE BIDEN: Well, I'll give you the list of the people who-

DONALD TRUMP: I'll fire them.

CHRIS WALLACE: No, no. Go ahead, sir.

JOE BIDEN: I'm sure that you've already fired most of them, because they did a good job.

DONALD TRUMP: Some people don't do a good job.

JOE BIDEN: Well, here's the- [crosstalk]

CHRIS WALLACE: Go ahead. You get the- [crosstalk] Wait a minute. You get the final word, Mr.-

JOE BIDEN: Well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. Excuse me, this person.

DONALD TRUMP: Hey, let me just tell you, Joe-

JOE BIDEN: No, no. Mr. President- [crosstalk]

DONALD TRUMP: Three and a half million, Joe.

JOE BIDEN: That is simply not true.

DONALD TRUMP: Why did he deserve three and a half million from Moscow?

JOE BIDEN: Look, here's the deal. We want to talk about families and ethics. I don't want to do that. I mean, his family, we could talk about all night. His family's already-

DONALD TRUMP: My family-

CHRIS WALLACE: No, no- [crosstalk].

DONALD TRUMP: My family lost a fortune by coming down and helping us with governance.

JOE BIDEN: And that's such a- [crosstalk]

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President-

DONALD TRUMP: Every single one of them lost a fortune-

JOE BIDEN: This is not about my family or his family. It's about your family, the American people. [crosstalk] That's not true. It doesn't want to talk about what you need. You, the American people, it's about you. That's what we're talking about here. [crosstalk]

CHRIS WALLACE: That's the end of the segment. We're moving on.

JOE BIDEN: He didn't take that.

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President-

DONALD TRUMP: Chris, can I be honest? It's a very important question-

JOE BIDEN: Try to be honest.


DONALD TRUMP: He stood up-

CHRIS WALLACE: The answer to the question is no.

DONALD TRUMP: … and the threatened Ukraine-


DONALD TRUMP: … with a billion dollars-

JOE BIDEN: That is absolutely not true.

CHRIS WALLACE: Stop. [crosstalk] Gentlemen, I hate to raise my voice, but I- [crosstalk] Why should I be different than the two of you? So here's the deal.

JOE BIDEN: That's a good point.

CHRIS WALLACE: We have six segments. We have ended that segment. We're going to go to the next segment. In that segment, you each are going to have two uninterrupted moments. In those two interrupted minutes, Mr. President, you can say anything you want. I'm going to ask a question about race, but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. But I think that the country would be better served, if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. I'm appealing to you, sir, to do that.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, and him too.

CHRIS WALLACE: Well, frankly, you've been doing more interrupting than he has.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, that's all right, but he does plenty.

CHRIS WALLACE: Well, sir, less than-

DONALD TRUMP: He does plenty.

CHRIS WALLACE: No, less than you have. Let's please continue on. The issue of rice. Vice-President Biden, you say that President Trump's response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago, when he talked about very fine people on both sides, was what directly led you to launch this run for president.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh yeah, sure.

CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, you have often said that you believe you will have done more for Black Americans than any president with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln.

DONALD TRUMP: That's true.

CHRIS WALLACE: My question for the two of you, is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first.

JOE BIDEN: It's about equity and equality. It's about decency. It's about the constitution. And we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole of America. But we've never accomplished it, but we've never walked away from it like he has done. It is true, the reason I got in the race is when those people… Close your eyes, remember what those people look like coming out of the fields, carrying torches, their veins bulging, just spewing anti-Semitic bile and accompanied by the Ku Klux Klan. A young woman got killed and they asked the president what he thought. He said, 'There were very fine people on both sides.' No president's ever said anything like that. [crosstalk].



CHRIS WALLACE: … minute sir.

JOE BIDEN: … second point I'd make to you, is that when Floyd was killed, when Mr. Floyd was killed, there was a peaceful protest in front of the White House. What did he do? He came out of his bunker, had the military use tear gas on them so he could walk across to a church and hold up a Bible. And then what happened after that? The Bishop of that very church said that it was a disgrace. The general who was with him said all he ever wants to do is divide people, not unite people at all. This is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle, to try to generate racists hatred, racist division.

JOE BIDEN: This is a man who, in fact, you talk about helping African-Americans, one in 1000 African Americans has been killed because of the coronavirus. And if he doesn't do something quickly, by the end of the year, one in 500 will have been killed. One in 500 African Americans. This man is as a savior of African-Americans? This man cares at all? This man's done virtually nothing. Look, the fact is that you have to look at what he talks about. You have to look at what he did. And what he did has been disastrous for the African-American community.


CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, you have two minutes. Why should Americans trust you over your opponent to deal race issues?

DONALD TRUMP: You did a crime bill, 1994, where you call them super predators. African-Americans are super predators and they've never forgotten it. They've never forgotten it.

JOE BIDEN: I've never said-

CHRIS WALLACE: No, no, sir. It's his two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: So you did that and they call you a super predator and I'm letting people out of jail now, that you have treated the African-American population community, you have treated the black community about as bad as anybody in this country. You did the 1990… And that's why, if you look at the polls, I'm doing better than any Republican has done in a long time, because they saw what you did. You call them super predators, and you've called them worse than that. Because you look back at your testimony over the years, you've called them a lot worse than that. As far as the church is concerned and as far as the generals are concerned, we just got the support of 250 military leaders and generals, total support. Law enforcement, almost every law enforcement group in the United States. I have Florida. I have Texas. I have Ohio. I have every… Excuse me, Portland, the sheriff just came out today and he said, 'I support President Trump.'

DONALD TRUMP: I don't think you have any law enforcement. You can't even say the word law enforcement. Because if you say those words, you're going to lose all of your radical left supporters. And why aren't you saying those words, Joe? Why don't you say the words law enforcement? Because you know what? If called us in Portland, we would put out that fire in a half an hour. But they won't do it, because they're run by radical left Democrats. If you look at Chicago, if you look at any place you want to look, Seattle, they heard we were coming in the following day and they put up their hands and we got back Seattle. Minneapolis, we got it back, Joe, because we believe in law and order, but you don't. The top 10 cities and just about the top 40 cities are run by Democrats, and in many cases radical left. And they've got you wrapped around their finger, Joe, to a point where you don't want to say anything about law and order. And I'll tell you what, the people of this country want and demand law and order and you're afraid to even say it.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. I want to return to the question of race. Vice President Biden, after the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question, 'Whether justice could be equally applied in America.' Do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for Blacks in this country?

JOE BIDEN: Yes, there is. There's systemic injustice in this country, in education and work and in law enforcement and the way in which it's enforced. But look, the vast majority of police officers are good, decent, honorable men and women. They risk their lives every day to take care of us, but there are some bad apples. And when they occur, when they find them, they have to be sorted out. They have to be held accountable. They have to be held accountable. And what I'm going to do as President of the United States is call together an entire group of people at the White House, everything from the civil rights groups, to the police officers, to the police chiefs, and we're going to work this out.

JOE BIDEN: We're going to work this out. So we changed the way in which we have more transparency, in when these things happen. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to George Floyd. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to Breonna Taylor. Most don't like it, but we have to have a system where people are held accountable when… And by the way, violence in response is never appropriate, never appropriate. Peaceful protest is, violence is never appropriate.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, Mr.-

DONALD TRUMP: What is peaceful protest? When they run through the middle of the town-

CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump-

DONALD TRUMP: … and burn down your stores and kill people all over the place- [crosstalk].

JOE BIDEN: That is not peaceful protest.

DONALD TRUMP: No it's not, but you say it is.

CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, I'd like to continue with the issue of race. I promise we're going to get to the issue of law and order in a moment.


CHRIS WALLACE: This month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. Why did you decide to do that, to end racial sensitivity training? And do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country, sir?

DONALD TRUMP: I ended it because it's racist. I ended it because a lot of people were complaining that they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane. That it a radical revolution that was taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place. And you know it, and so does everybody else. And he would know it- [crosstalk]

CHRIS WALLACE: What is radical about racial sensitivity training?

DONALD TRUMP: If you were a certain person, you had no status in life. It was sort of a reversal. And if you look at the people, we were paying people hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and frankly, very sick ideas. And really, they were teaching people to hate our country And I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to allow that to happen. We have to go back to the core values of this country. They were teaching people that our country is a horrible place. It's a racist place. And they were teaching people to hate our country. And I'm not going to allow that to happen.

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden.

JOE BIDEN: Nobody's doing that. He's the racist.

DONALD TRUMP: You just don't know.

JOE BIDEN: Here's the deal. I know a lot more about this- [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: Let him finish.

JOE BIDEN: The fact is that there is racial insensitivity. People have to be made aware of what other people feel like, what insults them, what is demeaning to them. It's important people know. Many people don't want to hurt other people's feelings, but it makes a big difference. It makes a gigantic difference in the way a child is able to grow up and have a sense of self-esteem. It's a little bit like how this guy and his friends look down on so many people. They look down their nose on people like Irish Catholics, like me, who grow up in Scranton. They look down on people who don't have money. They look down on people who are of a different faith. They looked down on people who are a different color. In fact, we're all Americans. The only way we're going to bring this country together is bring everybody together. There's nothing we cannot do, if we do it together. We can take this on and we can defeat racism in American.

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President… I mean, President Trump, sir.

DONALD TRUMP: During the Obama-Biden administration, there was tremendous division. There was hatred. You look at Ferguson, you look at, or you go to very… Many places, look at Oakland. Look what happened in Oakland. Look what happened in Baltimore. Look what happened… Frankly, it was more violent than what I'm even seeing now.

JOE BIDEN: Oh my Lord.

DONALD TRUMP: But the reason-

JOE BIDEN: This is ridiculous.

DONALD TRUMP: … is that the Democrats that run these cities-

JOE BIDEN: Absolutely ridiculous.

DONALD TRUMP: … don't want to talk, like you, about law and order.

JOE BIDEN: Violent crime-

DONALD TRUMP: And you still haven't mentioned. Are you in favor of law and order?

JOE BIDEN: I'm in favor of law. You- [crosstalk].

DONALD TRUMP: Are you in favor of law and order? [crosstalk]

CHRIS WALLACE: You asked a question, let him finish. [crosstalk] Let him answer.

JOE BIDEN: Law and order with justice, where people get treated fairly.


JOE BIDEN: And the fact of the matter is, violent crime went down 17%, 15% in our administration. It's gone up on his watch.

DONALD TRUMP: It went down much more in ours.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, we're done- [crosstalk] Mr. President, you're going to be very happy because we're now going to talk about law and order.

DONALD TRUMP: The places we had trouble were Democratic run cities-

CHRIS WALLACE: That's exactly my question. There has been a dramatic increase in homicides in America this summer particularly, and you often blame that on Democratic mayors and Democratic governors. But in fact, there have been equivalent spikes in Republican led cities, like Tulsa and Fort Worth. So the question is, is this really a…

CHRIS WALLACE: It's like Tulsa and Fort worth. So the question is, is this really a party issue?

DONALD TRUMP: I think as a party issue, you can bring in a couple of examples but if you look at Chicago, what's going on in Chicago where a 53 people were shot and eight died shot, if you look at New York where it's going up, like nobody's ever seen anything. The numbers are going up a 100%, 150%, 200% crime, it is crazy what's going on and he doesn't want to say law and order because he can't because he'll lose his radical left supporters and once he does that, it's over with. But if he ever got to run this country and they ran it the way he would want to run it, we would have by the way our suburbs would be gone. And you would see problems like you've never seen before.

JOE BIDEN: He wouldn't know a suburb unless you took a wrong turn.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh, I know suburbs so much that you.

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen wait a minute.

JOE BIDEN: I was raised in the suburbs. This is not 1950. All these dog whistles and racism don't work anymore. Suburbs are by and large integrated. There's many people today driving their kids to soccer practice and/or black and white and Hispanic in the same car as there have been any time in the past, what really is a threat to the suburbs and their safety is his failure to deal with COVID. They're dying in the suburbs. His failure to deal with the environment, they're being flooded, they're being burned out because his refusal to do anything. That's why the suburbs are in trouble.

CHRIS WALLACE: I do want to talk about this issue of law and order though. And in the joint recommendation that came from the Biden-Bernie Sanders task force, you talked about quote re-imagining policing. First of all, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support? If I might finish the question, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support the Black Lives Matter call for community control of policing?

JOE BIDEN: Look, what I support are the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face and I'm totally opposed to defunding the police offices. As a matter of fact police, local police, the only one defunding in his budget calls for a $400 million cut in local law enforcement assistance. They need more assistance. They need when they show up for a 9-11 call to have someone with them as a psychologist or psychiatrist to keep them from having to use force and be able to talk people down. We have to have community policing like we had before where the officers get to know the people in the communities. That's when crime went down, it didn't go up. It went down. And so we have to be…

DONALD TRUMP: That's not what they are talking about this. That's not what it is about. He's talking about defunding the police.

JOE BIDEN: That is not true.

DONALD TRUMP: He doesn't have any law support. He has no law enforcement.

JOE BIDEN: That's not true.

DONALD TRUMP: He has almost nothing. Oh, really, who do you have name one group that supports you name one group that came out and supported you. Go ahead. Think we have time.

JOE BIDEN: We don't have time to do anything.

DONALD TRUMP: No, no think right now. Name one law enforcement group that came out in support of you.

CHRIS WALLACE: Now, gentleman. I think I'm going to tell I'm going to take back the bottom line.

DONALD TRUMP: There aren't any.

CHRIS WALLACE: And I want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent in Portland, Oregon, especially we had more than a 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree, you talk about peaceful protests. Many of those turned into riots. Mr. Vice-president you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. The question I have though is as the Democratic nominee, and earlier tonight, you said that you are the Democratic Party right now, have you ever called the Democratic Mayor of Portland or the Democratic Governor of Oregon and said, 'Hey, you got to stop this, bring in the National Guard, do whatever it takes, but you'd stop the days and months of violence in Portland.'

JOE BIDEN: I don't hold public office. Now I am a former vice president. I've made it clear. I've made it clear in my public statements that the violence should be prosecuted. It should be prosecuted and anyone who committed it should be prosecuted.

CHRIS WALLACE: But you've never called for the people…

DONALD TRUMP: He's never done that.

CHRIS WALLACE: Excuse me, sir. You had never called for the leaders in Portland and in Oregon to call and bring in the National Guard and knock off a 100 days of riots.

JOE BIDEN: They can in fact take care of it if he just stay out of the way.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh really? I sent in the US Marshalls to get the killer of a young man in the middle of the street and they shot him for three days Portland didn't do anything. I sent in the US Marshals they took care of business.

CHRIS WALLACE: Go ahead sir.

JOE BIDEN: And by the way his own former spokesperson said, 'Riots and chaos and violence help he cause.' That's what this is all about.

DONALD TRUMP: I don't know who said that.



JOE BIDEN: I think Kellyanne Conway.

DONALD TRUMP: I don't think she said that.

JOE BIDEN: She said that.

DONALD TRUMP: I don't think so.

JOE BIDEN: Here's the point, the point is that that's why he keeps trying to rile everything up. He doesn't want to calm things down instead of going in and talking to people and saying, 'Let's get everybody together. Figure out how to deal with this.' What's he do? He just pours gasoline in the fire constantly and every single solitary time.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. And to end this, button up this segment I'm going to give you a minute to answer, sir. You have repeatedly criticized…

DONALD TRUMP: Does it mean I have to answer his stuff.

CHRIS WALLACE: You have repeatedly…

DONALD TRUMP: Wait a second, you have made a statement.

CHRIS WALLACE: You've been talking back and forth. I'm asking you.

DONALD TRUMP: I would love to end it.

CHRIS WALLACE: You know sir if you want to switch seats we could very quickly can do that.

DONALD TRUMP: I'll send in the National Guard, it would be over. That'd be no problem. But I don't want to accept the National Guard.

CHRIS WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland.

DONALD TRUMP: Sure, I'm willing to do that.

CHRIS WALLACE: Are you prepared specifically to do it.

DONALD TRUMP: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not from the right wing.

CHRIS WALLACE: But what are you saying?

DONALD TRUMP: I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

CHRIS WALLACE: Well, do it, sir.

JOE BIDEN: Say it, do it say it.

DONALD TRUMP: What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.

CHRIS WALLACE: White supremacist and white militia.

DONALD TRUMP: Okay, boys stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem this is a left wing.

JOE BIDEN: He's own FBI Director said unlike white supremacist, Antifa is an idea not an organization-

DONALD TRUMP: Oh you got to be kidding me.

JOE BIDEN: … not a militia. That's what his FBI Director said.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, then you know what, he's wrong.

CHRIS WALLACE: We're done, sir. Moving onto the next… [crosstalk]

DONALD TRUMP: Antifa is bad.

JOE BIDEN: Every body in your administration tells you the true, it's a bad idea. You have no idea about anything.

DONALD TRUMP: You know what, Antifa is a dangerous radical group.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, gentlemen we're now moving onto the Trump-Biden record.

DONALD TRUMP: And you ought to be careful of them, they'll over throw you.

CHRIS WALLACE: I'm going to ask a question. When the president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record but vice president Biden, you'd like to quote one of your dad's sayings, which is don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And in this case sir you are the alternative. Looking at both of your records, I'm going to ask each of you. Why should voters elect you president over your opponent in this segment, President Trump you'll go first, two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: Because there is never been an administration or president who has done more than I've done in a period of three and a half years. And that's despite the impeachment hoax and you so what happened today with Hillary Clinton, where it was a whole big con job. But despite going through all of these things where I had a fight, both flanks and behind me and above there has never been an administration that's done what I've done. The greatest, before COVID came in the greatest economy in history, lowest unemployment numbers, everything was good. Everything was going.

DONALD TRUMP: And by the way, there was unity going to happen. People were calling me for the first time in years, they were calling and they were saying it's time maybe and then what happened? We got hit. But now we're building it back up again. A rebuilding of the military, including Space Force and all of the other things. A fixing of the VA which was a mess under him, 308,000 people died because they didn't have proper health care. It was a mess. And we now got a 91% approval rating at the VA, our vets. We take care of our vets. But we've rebuilt our military. And I'll tell you something, some people say maybe the most important by the end of the first term I'll have approximately 300 Federal judges and Court of Appeals judges, 300 and hopefully three great Supreme Court judges, justices that is a record the likes of which very few people and one of the reasons I'll have so many judges because President Obama and him left me 128 judges to fill.

DONALD TRUMP: When you leave office, you don't leave any judges. That's like, you just don't do that. They left 128 openings and if I were a member of his party, because they have a little different philosophy, I'd say, if you left us 128 openings you can't be a good president. You can't be a good vice president but I want to thank you because it gives us almost, it'll probably be above that number. By the end of this term, 300 judges. It's a record.

CHRIS WALLACE: Looking at both of your records. Why should voters elect you President as opposed to president Trump, you have two minutes uninterrupted.

JOE BIDEN: Under this president, we become weaker, sicker, poor, more divided and more violent. When I was vice president, we inherited a recession. I was asked to fix it. Ich tat. We left him a booming economy and he caused the recession. With regard to being weaker, the fact is that I've gone head to head with Putin and made it clear to him we're not going to take any of his stuff. He's Putin's puppy. He still refuses to even say anything to Putin about the bounty on the heads of American soldiers.

DONALD TRUMP: You son got three and a half million dollars.

JOE BIDEN: By the way, my son…

CHRIS WALLACE: Wait a minute. Mr. President, your campaign agreed to both sides would get two minute answers, uninterrupted. Well, you're a side agreed to it and why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground rule. Okay, sir?

JOE BIDEN: He never keeps his word.

CHRIS WALLACE: No, that was a rhetorical question.

JOE BIDEN: Can you get back 30 seconds?

CHRIS WALLACE: Yes. You may have, go ahead.

JOE BIDEN: So thirdly, we're poor. The billionaires have gotten much more wealthy by a tune of over $3- $400 billion more just since COVID. You in the home, you got less you're in more trouble than you were before. In terms of being more violent. When we were in office there were 15% less violence in America than there is today. He's President United States. It's on his watch. And with regard to more divided the nation, it can't stay divided. We can't be this way. And speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and being and just being suckers. My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got the Brown Star. He got the Conspicuous Service Medal. He was not a loser. He was a Patriot and the people left behind there were heroes.


JOE BIDEN: And I resent-

DONALD TRUMP: Are you talking Hunter, are you talking about Hunter.

JOE BIDEN: I'm talking about my son, Beau Biden, you're talking about Hunter?

DONALD TRUMP: I don't know Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out dishonorably discharged.

JOE BIDEN: That's not true he was not dishonorably discharged.

DONALD TRUMP: For cocaine use. And he didn't have a job until you became vice president.

JOE BIDEN: None of that is true.

DONALD TRUMP: Once you became vice president he made a fortune in Ukraine, in China, in Moscow and various other places.

JOE BIDEN: That is not true.

DONALD TRUMP: He made a fortune and he didn't have a job.

JOE BIDEN: My son like a lot of people at home had a drug problem. He's overtaking it. He's fixed it. He's worked on it. And I'm proud of him, I'm proud of my son.

DONALD TRUMP: But why was he given tens of millions of dollars?

JOE BIDEN: He wasn't given tens of millions of dollars. [crosstalk] It was all discredited.

CHRIS WALLACE: We've already been through this. I think the American people would rather hear about more substantial subjects. Well, as the moderator, sir, I'm going to make a judgment call here.

DONALD TRUMP: I know but when somebody gets three and a half million dollars from the Mayor of Moscow.

JOE BIDEN: That is not true. That report is totally discredited.

DONALD TRUMP: Why did he get it?

JOE BIDEN: Mitt Romney on that committee said it wasn't worth taxpayer's money. That report was written for political reason.

CHRIS WALLACE: I'd like to talk about climate change.

JOE BIDEN: So would I.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. The forest fires in the West are raging now. They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. When state officials there blamed the fires on climate change. Mr. President, you said, I don't think the science knows. Over your four years, you have pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama Environmental records, what do you believe about the science of climate change and what will you do in the next four years to confront it?

DONALD TRUMP: I want crystal clean water and air. I want beautiful clean air. We have now the lowest carbon… If you look at our numbers right now, we are doing phenomenally. But I haven't destroyed our businesses. Our businesses aren't put out of commission. If you look at the Paris Accord, it was a disaster from our standpoint. And people are actually very happy about what's going on because our businesses are doing well. As far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management. In addition to everything else, the forest floors are loaded up with trees, dead trees that are years old and they're like tinder and leaves and everything else. You drop a cigarette in there the whole forest burns down. You've got to have forest management.

CHRIS WALLACE: What do you believe about the science of climate change, sir?

DONALD TRUMP: I believe that we have to do everything we can to have immaculate air immaculate water and do whatever else we can that's good. We're planting a billion trees, the Billion Tree Project and it's very exciting for a lot of people.

CHRIS WALLACE: You believe that human pollution, gas, greenhouse gas emissions contributes to the global warming of this planet.

DONALD TRUMP: I think a lot of things do, but I think to an extent, yes. I think to an extent, yes, but I also think we have to do better management of our forest. Every year I get the call. California's burning, California's burning. If that was cleaned, if that were, if you had forest management, good forest management, you wouldn't be getting those calls. In Europe, they live they're forest cities. They call forest cities. They maintain their forest. They manage their forest. I was with the head of a major country, it's a forest city. He said, 'Sir, we have trees that are far more, they ignite much easier than California. There shouldn't be that problem.' I spoke with the Governor about it. I'm getting along very well with the governor. But I said, 'At some point you can't every year have hundreds of thousands of acres of land just burned to the ground.' That's burning down because of a lack of management.

CHRIS WALLACE: But sir if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan which limited carbon emissions and power plants? Why have you relaxed…?

DONALD TRUMP: Because it was driving energy prices through the sky.

JOE BIDEN: Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks?

DONALD TRUMP: Well, not really because what's happening is the car is much less expensive and it's a much safer car and you talk it about a tiny difference. And then what would happen because of the cost of the car you would have at least double and triple the number of cars purchased. We have the old slugs out there that are 10, 12 years old. If you did that, the car would be safer. It would be much cheaper by $3,500.

CHRIS WALLACE: But in the case of California they have simply ignored that.

DONALD TRUMP: No, but you would take a lot of cars off the market because people would be able to afford a car. Now, by the way, we're going to see how that turns out. But a lot of people agree with me, many people. The car has gotten so expensive because they have computers all over the place for an extra little bit of gasoline. And I'm okay with electric cars too. I think I'm all for electric cars. I've given big incentives for electric cars but what they've done in California is just crazy.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, Vice president Biden. I'd like you to respond to the president's climate change record but I also want to ask you about a concern. You propose $2 trillion in green jobs. You talk about new limits, not abolishing, but new limits on fracking. Ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035 and zero none admission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs.

JOE BIDEN: He's absolutely wrong, number one. Number two, if in fact, during our administration in the recovery act, I was in charge able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to cheaper than are as cheap as coal and gas and oil. Nobody's going to build another coal fired plant in America. No one's going to build another oil fire plant in America. They're going to move to renewable energy. Number one, number two, we're going to make sure that we are able to take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet that's run on their electric vehicles. Making sure that we can do that, we're going to put 500,000 charging stations in all of the highways that we're going to be building in the future. We're going to build a economy that in fact is going to provide for the ability of us to take 4 million buildings and make sure that they in fact are weatherized in a way that in fact will they'll emit significantly less gas and oil because the heat will not be going out. There's so many things that we can do…

JOE BIDEN: Gas and oil because the heat will not be going out. There's so many things that we can do now to create thousands and thousands of jobs. We can get to net zero, in terms of energy production, by 2035. Not only not costing people jobs, creating jobs, creating millions of good-paying jobs. Not 15 bucks an hour, but prevailing wage, by having a new infrastructure that in fact, is green. And the first thing I will do, I will rejoin the Paris Accord. I will join the Paris Accord because with us out of it, look what's happening. It's all falling apart. And talk about someone who has no relationship with foreign policy. The rainforests of Brazil are being torn down, are being ripped down. More carbon is absorbed in that rainforest than every bit of carbon that's emitted in the United States. Instead of doing something about that, I would be gathering up and making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion, and say, 'Here's $20 billion. Stop tearing down the forest. And If you don't, then you're going to have significant economic consequences.'

CHRIS WALLACE: What about the argument that President Trump basically says, that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests? And he's drawn his line.

JOE BIDEN: Well, he hasn't drawn a line. He wants to make sure that methane's not a problem. You can now emit more methane without it being a problem. Methane. This is a guy who says that you don't have to have mileage standards for automobiles that exist now. This is the guy who says that, the fact that-

DONALD TRUMP: Not true. Not true-

JOE BIDEN: It's all true. And here's the deal-

DONALD TRUMP: He's talking about the Green New Deal. And it's not 2 billion [crosstalk] or 20 billion, as you said [crosstalk]. It's $100 trillion.

JOE BIDEN: I'm talking about the Biden plan [crosstalk]-

CHRIS WALLACE: Let him go for a minute, and then you can go.

DONALD TRUMP: And rebuild the building.


DONALD TRUMP: It's the dumbest-

JOE BIDEN: That is not-

DONALD TRUMP: … most ridiculous [crosstalk] where two car systems are out-

JOE BIDEN: Not true-

DONALD TRUMP: … where they want to take out the cows too.

JOE BIDEN: Not true.

DONALD TRUMP: That's not true either, right?

JOE BIDEN: Not true.

DONALD TRUMP: This is a 100 trillion-

JOE BIDEN: Simply… Look-

DONALD TRUMP: That's more money than our country could make in 100 years [crosstalk]-

JOE BIDEN: That is simply not the case-

CHRIS WALLACE: All right. Let me [crosstalk]. Wait a minute, sir. I actually have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million homes over four years, building one and a half million energy efficient homes. So the question becomes, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say, that sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy.

JOE BIDEN: What it's going to do, it's going to create thousands and millions of jobs. Good paying jobs [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: Let him finish, sir.

JOE BIDEN: He doesn't know how to do that-

DONALD TRUMP: 100 million dollars.

JOE BIDEN: The fact is, it's going to create millions of good paying jobs, and these tax incentives for people to weatherize, which he wants to get rid of. It's going to make the economy much safer. Look how much we're paying now to deal with the hurricanes, deal with… By the way, he has an answer for hurricanes. He said, maybe we should drop a nuclear weapon on them, and they may-

DONALD TRUMP: I never said that at all-

JOE BIDEN: Yeah, he did say that-

DONALD TRUMP: They made it up.

JOE BIDEN: And here's the deal-

DONALD TRUMP: You make up a lot-

JOE BIDEN: … we're going to be in a position where we can create hard, hard, good jobs by making sure the environment is clean, and we all are in better shape. We spend billions of dollars now, billions of dollars, on floods, hurricanes, rising seas. We're in real trouble. Look what's happened just in the Midwest with these storms that come through and wipe out entire sections and counties in Iowa. They didn't happen before. They're because of global warming. We make up 15% of the world's problem. But the rest of the world, we've got to get them to come along. That's why we have to get back into the Paris Accord.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, gentlemen-

DONALD TRUMP: Wait a minute, Chris. So why didn't he do it for 47 years? You were vice president-

JOE BIDEN: For 47-

DONALD TRUMP: So why didn't you get the world… China sends up real dirt into the air. Russia does. India does. They all do. We're supposed to be good. And by the way, he made a couple of statements. The Green New Deal is a hundred trillion dollars.

JOE BIDEN: That is not my plan [crosstalk]. The Green New Deal [crosstalk] is not my plan. [crosstalk]


DONALD TRUMP: He made a statement about the military. He said I said something about the military. He and his friends made it up, and then they went with it. I never said it.

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. [crosstalk] Mr. Vice President-

DONALD TRUMP: He called the military stupid bastards.

JOE BIDEN: I did not say that-

DONALD TRUMP: He said it on tape. [crosstalk]-

CHRIS WALLACE: Please, sir. [crosstalk] Stop.

DONALD TRUMP: I would never say that [crosstalk]-

JOE BIDEN: Play it. Play it-

CHRIS WALLACE: Stop. Go ahead-

DONALD TRUMP: You're on tape-

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. Vice President answered his final question.

JOE BIDEN: The final question is, I can't remember which of all his rantings [crosstalk].

CHRIS WALLACE: I'm having a little trouble myself, but…


CHRIS WALLACE: And about the economy and about this question of what it's going to cost.

JOE BIDEN: The economy-

CHRIS WALLACE: The Green New Deal and the idea of what your environmental changes will do-

JOE BIDEN: The Green New Deal will pay for itself as we move forward. We're not going to build plants that, in fact, are great polluting plants-

CHRIS WALLACE: So, do you support the Green New Deal?

JOE BIDEN: Pardon me?

CHRIS WALLACE: Do you support the-

JOE BIDEN: No, I don't support the Green New Deal.

DONALD TRUMP: Oh, you don't? Oh, well, that's a big statement.

JOE BIDEN: I support [crosstalk]-

DONALD TRUMP: You just lost the radical left.

JOE BIDEN: I support [crosstalk] the Biden plan that I put forward.


JOE BIDEN: The Biden plan, which is different than what he calls the radical Green New Deal.

CHRIS WALLACE: All right, gentlemen, final segment, election integrity. As we meet tonight, millions of Americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. How confident should we be that this will be a fair election, and what are you prepared to do over the next five plus weeks? Because it will not only be to election day, but also counting some mail-in ballots after election day. What are you prepared to do to reassure the American people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election. In this final segment, Mr. Vice President, you go first.

JOE BIDEN: Prepare to let people vote. They should go to iwillvote.com, decide how they're going to vote, when they're going to vote, and what means by which they're going to vote. His own Homeland Security director, and as well as the FBI director, says that there is no evidence at all that mail-in ballots are a source of being manipulated and cheating. They said that. The fact is that there are going to be millions of people because of COVID that are going to be voting by mail-in ballots like he does, by the way. He sits behind the Resolute Desk and sends his ballot to Florida, number one. Number two, we're going to make sure that those people who want to vote in person are able to vote because there are enough poll watchers are there to make sure they can socially distance. The polls are open on time, and the polls stay open until the votes are counted. And this is all about trying to dissuade people from voting because he's trying to scare people into thinking that it's not going to be legitimate.

JOE BIDEN: Show up and vote. You will determine the outcome of this election. Vote, vote, vote. If you're able to vote early in your state, vote early. If you're able to vote in person, vote in person. Vote whatever way is the best way for you, because you will… He cannot stop you from being able to determine the outcome of this election. And in terms of whether or not… When the votes are counted and they're all counted, that will be accepted. If I win, that will be accepted. If I lose, that'll be accepted. But by the way, if in fact he says, he's not sure what he's going to accept. Well, let me tell you something, it doesn't matter, because if we get the votes, it's going to be all over. He's going to go. He can't stay in power. It won't happen. It won't happen, so vote. Just make sure you understand, you have it in your control to determine what this country is going to look like the next four years. Is it going to change, or are you going to get four more years of these lies?

CHRIS WALLACE: Mr. President, two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: So when I listen to Joe talking about a transition, there has been no transition from when I won. I won that election. And if you look at crooked Hillary Clinton, if you look at all of the different people, there was no transition, because they came after me trying to do a coup. They came after me spying on my campaign. They started from the day I won, and even before I won. From the day I came down the escalator with our first lady, they were a disaster. They were a disgrace to our country, and we've caught them. We've caught them all. We've got it all on tape. We've caught them all. And by the way, you gave the idea for the Logan Act against General Flynn. You better take a look at that, because we caught you in a sense, and President Obama was sitting in the office.

DONALD TRUMP: He knew about it too. So don't tell me about a free transition. As far as the ballots are concerned, it's a disaster. A solicited ballot, okay, solicited, is okay. You're soliciting. You're asking. They send it back. You send it back. I did that. If you have an unsolicited… They're sending millions of ballots all over the country. There's fraud. They found them in creeks. They found some, just happened to have the name Trump just the other day in a wastepaper basket. They're being sent all over the place. They sent two in a Democrat area. They sent out a thousand ballots. Everybody got two ballots. This is going to be a fraud like you've never seen. The other thing, it's nice. On November 3rd, you're watching, and you see who won the election. And I think we're going to do well because people are really happy with the job we've done.

DONALD TRUMP: But you know what? We won't know. We might not know for months because these ballots are going to be all over. Take a look at what happened in Manhattan. Take a look at what happened in New Jersey. Take a look at what happened in Virginia and other places. They're not losing 2%, 1%, which by the way is too much. An election could be won or lost with that. They're losing 30 and 40%. It's a fraud, and it's a shame. And can you imagine where they say, 'You have to have your ballot in by November 10th.' November 10th. That's seven days after the election, in theory, should have been announced. We have major states [crosstalk] with that-


DONALD TRUMP: … all run by Democrats-

CHRIS WALLACE: Two minutes is two minutes.

DONALD TRUMP: All run by Democrats.

CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump-

DONALD TRUMP: It's a rigged election.

CHRIS WALLACE: You're going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it's rigged [crosstalk], that it's going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that year, cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. I think I'm counting on them to look at the ballots, definitely. I hope we don't need them, in terms of the election itself. But for the ballots, I think so, because what's happening is incredible. I read today where at least 1% of the ballots for 2016 were invalidated. They take them. We don't like them. We don't like them. They throw them out-

CHRIS WALLACE: But what are you going to do about it-

DONALD TRUMP: … left and right.

CHRIS WALLACE: There are millions of ballots going out right now. What are you going to do-

DONALD TRUMP: What you do is you go and vote. You do a solicited ballot, and that's okay-

CHRIS WALLACE: No. No. I know your complaint [crosstalk]. I'm asking you about the fact that millions of people have received-

DONALD TRUMP: You go and vote. You go and vote-

CHRIS WALLACE: No. But what I'm saying is [crosstalk], what are you going to do about the fact that millions of people-

DONALD TRUMP: You either do, Chris, a solicited ballot, where you're sending it in, they're sending it back and you're sending. They have mailmen with lots of it. Did you see what's going on? Take a look at West Virginia, mailman selling the ballots. They're being sold. They're being dumped in rivers. This is a horrible thing for our country.

JOE BIDEN: There is no [crosstalk]… There is no evidence of that-

DONALD TRUMP: This is not going to end well.

JOE BIDEN: There is no evidence of that-

DONALD TRUMP: This is not going to end well-

CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. Vice President Biden, in fact, go ahead, sir-

JOE BIDEN: Five states have had mail-in ballots for the last decade or more. Five, including two Republican states. And you don't have to solicit the ballot. It's sent to you. It's sent to your home. What they're saying is that it has to be a postmark by election day. If it doesn't get in until the seventh, eighth, ninth, it still should be counted. He's just afraid of counting the votes-

DONALD TRUMP: You're wrong. You're wrong [crosstalk]. I love counting the votes [crosstalk]-

CHRIS WALLACE: I want to continue with you on this [crosstalk] Vice President Biden-

DONALD TRUMP: Chris, he's so wrong when he makes a statement like that-

CHRIS WALLACE: No. Excuse me. Vice President Biden, the biggest problem, in fact, over the years with mail-in voting has not been fraud, historically. It has been that sizable numbers, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out, or there is some other irregularity, or they missed [crosstalk] the deadline. So the question I have is, are you concerned that the Supreme Court with a Justice Barrett will settle any dispute?

JOE BIDEN: I am concerned that any court would settle this, because here's the deal. When you get a ballot and you fill it out, you're supposed to have an affidavit. If you didn't know, you have someone say that, this is me. You should be able to, if in fact you can verify that's you before the ballot is thrown out, that's sufficient to be able to count the ballot because someone made a mistake and not dotting the correct I. Who they voted for, testify, say who they voted for, say it's you. That is totally legitimate.


DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me [crosstalk]-

CHRIS WALLACE: No. No. No. I have a final [crosstalk]. Gentlemen, I have a final question [crosstalk]-

DONALD TRUMP: You know it can't be done. You know it can't, and already, there's been fraud [crosstalk]-

JOE BIDEN: Mail service delivers [crosstalk] 185 million pieces of mail a day [crosstalk]-

CHRIS WALLACE: We can keep talking. In eight states, [crosstalk] election workers are prohibited, currently by law, eight states, from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the envelopes and flatten them until election day. That means that it's likely, because there's going to be a huge increase in mail-in balloting, that we are not going to know on election night who the winner is, that it could be days. It could be weeks-

DONALD TRUMP: Could be months-

CHRIS WALLACE: … until we find out who the new president is. First for you, sir. Finally, for the vice president, and I hope neither of you will interrupt the other. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest? And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? President Trump, you go first-

DONALD TRUMP: I'm urging my supporters to go in to the polls and watch very carefully, because that's what has to happen. I am urging them to do it. As you know, today there was a big problem. In Philadelphia, they went in to watch. They're called poll watchers, a very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch. You know why? Because bad things happen in Philadelphia. Bad things. And I am urging my people. I hope it's going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election-

CHRIS WALLACE: You're urging them what?

DONALD TRUMP: … I am 100% on board. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along with that. And I'll tell you why-

CHRIS WALLACE: What does that mean, not go along-

DONALD TRUMP: … from a common sense-

CHRIS WALLACE: Does that mean you're going to tell your people-

DONALD TRUMP: I'll tell you what it means-

CHRIS WALLACE: … to take to the streets?

DONALD TRUMP: It means you have a fraudulent election. You're sending out 80 million ballots-

CHRIS WALLACE: And what would you do about that?

DONALD TRUMP: They're not equipped… These people aren't equipped to handle it, number one. Number two, they cheat. They cheat. Hey, they found ballots in a wastepaper basket three days ago, and they all had the name military ballots. There were military. They all had the name Trump on them.

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden-

DONALD TRUMP: You think that's good?

CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden, final question for you. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm while the vote is counted? And will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?

JOE BIDEN: Yes. And here's the deal. We count the ballots, as you pointed out. Some of these ballots in some states can't even be opened until election day. And if there's thousands of ballots, it's going to take time to do it. And by the way, our military… They've been voting by ballots since the end of the Civil War, in effect. And that's what's going to happen. Why is it, for them, somehow not fraudulent. It's the same process. It's honest. No one has established at all that there is fraud related to mail-in ballots, that somehow it's a fraudulent process.

DONALD TRUMP: It's already been established. Take a look at Carolyn Maloney's race-

CHRIS WALLACE: I asked you. You had an opportunity to respond [crosstalk]. Go ahead [crosstalk]. Vice President Biden, go ahead.

JOE BIDEN: He has no idea what he's talking about. Here's the deal. The fact is, I will accept it, and he will too. You know why? Because once the winner is declared after all the ballots are counted, all the votes are counted, that'll be the end of it. That'll be the end of it. And if it's me, in fact, fine. If it's not me, I'll support the outcome. And I'll be a president, not just for the Democrats. I'll be a president for Democrats and Republicans. And this guy-

DONALD TRUMP: I want to see an honest ballot cut-

CHRIS WALLACE: Gentlemen, just say that's the end of it [crosstalk]. This is the end of this debate-

DONALD TRUMP: I want to see an honest ballot count.

CHRIS WALLACE: We're going to leave it there-

DONALD TRUMP: And I think he does too-

CHRIS WALLACE: … to be continued in more debates as we go on. President Trump, Vice President Biden, it's been an interesting hour and a half. I want to thank you both for participating in the first of three debates that you have agreed to engage in. We want to thank Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic for hosting this event. The next debate, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, will be one week from tomorrow, October 7th, at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. The two vice presidential nominees, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris will debate at 9:00 PM Eastern that night. We hope you watch. Until then, thank you, and good night. Thank you.